I am not certain, but would guess that it may have been the American pronunciation which diverged when Noah Webster's Dictionary was published - he rationalized (according to his lights) spelling, and it may be that he tried to rationalize pronunciation too, especially given the US/French entente in the 18th century. Is it like . As the rank structure of navies stabilized, and the ranks of commander, lieutenant commander, and sub-lieutenant (or lieutenant, junior grade in the U.S. services) were introduced, the rank of naval lieutenant became less wide-ranging and is today the equivalent of an army captain. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? dailyinfo[21]=' L/32287 Driver John Frampton GAZE "O" Bty. or LIEF a. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? My fellow Brit's cynical intolerance for Americans makes me ashamed to be British. I'm sorry for some of the rude comments produced by some of the Americans' answers. Moreoever an Old French rending of lieu was "luef". Back in the 1800's Leutenant Mark Lefting was wounded during a battle, his men presumed him to be dead and left him there when they could not find him. According to a letter from the Permanent Secretary to the Board of Admiralty mentioned in a 1949 article in American Speech, the correct pronunciation is/was either "ltnnt" or "l'tnnt". NWEzNjA5OGIwZDA4MDk1MzliMTE3N2YwNjNjZDVhYjM5MTBmNjljNzQ3Y2Zm NzE2Nzg4YjdjMTJjMjhhMzIzYmJiOGQxMGU2MTA5NDdlYTNmNzQ5OGZlMjVi ZTdlYmYzMmVjNmE0MjYyNDgxY2E2MjA3OGE5YjU3MWQ3NjQxMzI0MWUwZGU5 Have some class. dailyinfo[29]=' Oberleutnant zur See Axel Carl Ludwig VON SCHOENERMARCK S.M.S. The Norman French phrase 'lieutenant' may have predated the Latin rendering 'locum tenens'. The insignia of a lieutenant in many navies, including the Royal Navy,[5] consists of two medium gold braid stripes (top stripe with loop) on a navy blue or black background. Lieut. Thank the British for our language and New York, else we would be speaking Dutch in New Amsterdam (or however the Dutch spell it). Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus. With that said, my best assumption would be the translation from French is the most likely reason for the difference in pronunciations. This is 2013. Anybody got a copy ? Fast Forward to `Tot Commiseration Day', bloody Americans, (curse them & their DRY SHIPS which was a fore-runner), they were revolting in 1776 - and have remained so ever since !! How can we prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. From Latin then, lieutenant literally means "place holder" and the military lieutenant acts on behalf ofor in place oftheir commanding officer. "The first reference to a naval Lieutenant is in 1580 when one was borne in each ship as the Captain's understudy. Royal Indian Navy rating : Ty/ Temporary : TE. Let's just promote them all to captain and be done with it! @BrianHooper I am not sure that is exactly correct. With 9 minutes and 30 questions this section measures your ability to interpret and understand words and language. /l(j)evtnnt/ (hypercorrection) Assimilation /l(j)eftnnt/. rev2023.3.3.43278. It's English - our language. Training Ship : TU . The politicians and the public wanted nothing that sounded French. This little story offers another simple explanation of the inserted "F" in the pronunciation. The typical Royal Navy Lieutenant salary is 51,652 per year. Add Definition English (UK) Pronunciation Dutch Pronunciation French (Canada) Pronunciation How To Pronounce Lieutenant (Royal Navy) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (Senior Grade) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (Star Trek) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (U.S. Navy) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (U.S.) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (United States) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (United States) (disambiguation) How To Pronounce Lieutenant (US Navy) . Agreed. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. About time y'all brushed up on your Spanish!! Can't have that can we !! //-->, By Why does the ending -ough have six pronunciations? WOW! (Not all of you, some of you had some insightful comments above; but the anally retentive chauvinists above know who they are). Lieutenants formed the backbone of the officer corps, being the most numerous class of officer. Reason for different pronunciations of "lieutenant", We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Deciphering two words from their Archaic spellings. It is possible that Middle English speakers may have heard the final (w) of this word [] as a (v) or (f) []. In 1793 Walker gives the actual pronunciations as (lev- liv-tenant), but expresses the hope that ' the regular sound, lewtenant' will in time become current. There are so many opinions that contradict each other. (Salonika) Territorial Force Nursing Service who died 01/03/1918 KNOWLE (SS. It's an achaic spelling in English, but not in French. Northamptonshire Regiment who died 14/03/1915 LE TOURET MEMORIAL France ' Bluecher German Navy who died 29/01/1915 CANNOCK CHASE GERMAN MILITARY CEMETERY United Kingdom ' 2nd Bn. A first-rate ship was entitled to six, and they were numbered accordingly. Also could the different pronunciation be influenced by the fact that an army lieutenant is not the equivilent rank of Lieutenant RN or Flt. By the way I was a sub-lieutenant so did pay some attention to how to pronounce and especially how the captain pronounced it certainly never leftenant or lootenant. @BrianHooper Every member of the Royal Navy I've met (a considerable number, from a wide variety of branches) has pronounced it 'lef-tenant'. In the phonetics you gave - "either "ltnnt" or "l'tnnt" : - is pronounced like the a in about [u-bowt] or the e in bitte (a sort of uh sound), and ' is showing that the sound following it is stressed. Very true but 'english' is a composite of innumerable other languages often incorrectly pronounced or altered from the original spelling or even meaning. Why does the word "garage" have so many different pronunciations? Lieu from french shows up in English phrases like "in lieu of" meaning "in place of", so lieu means place and lieutenant essentially means placeholder. dailyinfo[5]=' 12147 Private Harry COOK 8th Bn. NjcyOWZhNTVmNGZiOGQwMDU5ZDg4ZGI4ZjRlYzZhOGMxZGM3ODQyNDQ0NWU0 Commander You may command a warship or submarine, squadron or shore establishment. and Gen. Hos. 16 Reply [deleted] 5 yr. ago [removed] Reply Training Establishment : TS. One could explain this the influence of non-British immigrants applying standard French pronunciation to a word with apparently obvious French origins. 'Off of' is completely and gramatically very incorrect. in view of the rare OF. That said, it sounds downright silly to pronounce "lieu" as "left," but if Brits like it that way, it's fine with me. OTRhYmFiNTY0ZjUxYzkwZTYyYjM1ODRkYmYyZmNjMjYxMGI4MjE1ZTgwNTc1 Colonel and Lieutenant Colonel Colonels and Lieutenant Colonels owe their titles to the Sixteenth Century Spanish King Ferdinand. Left - tenant will eventually become archaic usage here. Lieutenants and sub-lieutenants are equivalent to ranks with a NATO code of OF-1. Officers are typically promoted after serving as a sub-lieutenants (OF-1) for 30 months. dailyinfo[30]=' B/469 Worker Charles BARLOW Australian Munition Worker who died 30/01/1918 NORTH SHEEN CEMETERY United Kingdom ' I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it . Royal Horse Artillery who died 21/02/1917 GUARDS CEMETERY, COMBLES France ' I like all different accents from any country - it's interesting to me. I'm glad I know now why it's pronounced that way and I thank you for the information. Maybe Russian and British English got the word through German, which regularly changes the 'u/w' sound to the 'v' sound; whereas we Americans took the pronunciation directly from French? Royal Navy, 1854-1919. The ModE pronunciation with /f/ means one of the following things: The speakers of the French dialect lieutenant was borrowed from probably pronounced the u as [v] in some places and it took the devoicing from the following /t/ (cf. -----END REPORT-----. Sign up for a new account in our community. IMHO, All languages have been evolving for thousands of yearsthink vowel shift! NDIyYjk3YWY3OTFlOWI1NjE5NmQ5ZGRhOTIxYTE1ZjNkNzAwNWE4ZWI3MzJh Lieutenant[nb 1] (abbreviated Lt, LT (U.S.), LT(USN), Lieut and LEUT, depending on nation) is a commissioned officer rank in many English-speaking nations' navies and coast guards. var year=mydate.getYear() Welcome to EL&U. ivanti servicenow integration. The insignia of an additional half-stripe between the two full stripes of a lieutenant . A Lieutenant Commander is normally in charge of a department on a large ship or on a shore base. In 1677, Samuel Pepys, while he was Chief Secretary to the Admiralty, introduced the first examination for lieutenant,[2] and thereafter their seniority was dated from the passing of this examination. dailyinfo[20]=' 10259 Private Charles BUCHANAN 1st Bn. if (year < 1000) year+=1900 There are people from the States that make me cringe when I hear them speak, as I am sure there are people from the UK that make people native to that country cringe. (English pronunciations of lieutenant from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus and from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary, both sources Cambridge University Press), a curve that goes around a central tube or cone shape in the form of a spiral, Watch your back! 'Lieutenant' comes from French lieu ('place') and tenant ('holding'). I think language is a part of culture, and I respect your culture and find your way of speaking and pronunciation beautiful. The starting salary of a Lieutenant in the Royal Navy is 42,850 per year. Expect to have to 'fill in the blanks', choose the 'odd one out' or find the relationship between the given words and phrases. MmIyNDY4NmM0NWU1MzhhMzQwZmVmZGMxNTgwMTZlOTU0MWFmOGE2NzZiYTdj I'm still not sure how on earth to pronounce it (even though I've had that "American Speech" article I quoted from for five years now). ('v' naturally becomes a voiceless 'f' in assimilation to the following 't' in many languages.). Many years ago as a student I took a summer job working in my local greengrocers shop. It would be interesting to know where and when the pronunciatiations diverged. Today in Naval History - Naval / Maritime Events in History 1st of August please use the following link and you will find the details and all events of. MjlkZGNkNTIxMzQzNTFmOWFlYTkxOWU4YzkyMDExNGE1NDYxOTYxOGViMjk2 55th and 57th Divisions keeping). About 1505 he reorganized part of his army into twenty units. New Zealand Engineers who died 13/03/1918 ST. POL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION France ' The origin of the beta type of forms (which survives in the usual British proununciation, though the spelling represents the alpha type) is difficult to explain. Left vs lieu. Regional accents will always create some anomalies but those cases where there is an obvious sense in pronouncing as spelt - such as lieutenant - will disappear. In minor war vessels, destroyers and frigates, the first lieutenant (either a lieutenant or lieutenant commander) is second in command, executive officer (XO) and head of the executive branch; in larger ships, where a commander of the warfare specialisation is appointed as the executive officer, a first lieutenant (normally a lieutenant commander) is appointed as his deputy. YzgwZjg2NDUyYjE0NDdhYWUzZDE5NGQ2MjJjNzJkMmNiZTA1MjJiMTI5NmE2 Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. var month=mydate.getMonth()+1 NmVmM2M1M2I3YmE1YjBiNjQ5ZTg3NDM0NzI4YzkyY2U0YjlhOWE3ZDEyIiwi It sure engenders some puzzled looks, but they are often followed by an "ah-ha" nod. It is typically the most senior of junior officer ranks. So it's clear variants of both were in use in England in the 14th century. $256.01 Both [v] (also [f]) and [w] are labial soundsthat is, made with the lips. Lest you think I'm not a traditionalist re: grammar, I have always said "Am I not?" ZTk3YzRlZTJjMjg2NmYzMmIyZTE5NTQ3Mzc1NjA1YTMwNGE3ZmNhZTg1ZDdi // Stop Define Variables for days of the month English's beauty/zaniness comes from how Brits spell the words as they came to us -- it's a sort of mini-etymology in every word -- simplifying it is cheating & lazy. What was new to me, on checking lieutenant, was the appearance of the f spelling (presumably indicating pronunciation), so early in the English version. I'll just note the UK pronunciation you cite is not 100% prevalent in the UK, I've known more than a few Brits that pronounced it the same way Americans do. home slice pizza congress; neighborhood stabilization program homes for sale; relationship between voltage and charge in a capacitor; njcaa football playoffs 2023 How Language is spoken and how it is written is constantly evolving. What is the purpose of this D-shaped ring at the base of the tongue on my hiking boots? The word is pronounced L'TENANT in the Royal Navy, LEFTENANT in the Army https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/12171/reason-for-different-pronunciations-of-lieutenant cecl for dummies; can you transfer doordash credits to another account; lieutenant pronunciation royal navy; June 22, 2022 . As far as I'm aware the English/British pronunciation is and has always been "leftenant". Kansans For Fair Courts. It's apparent from the examples of usage given that a mixture was in use, e.g. The lower ranked soldier on the "left" protected the senior officers left side. No one really knows why, it's just one of those things that happens with military tradition. I agree with Sadsac and Simon. The language continues to evolve rapidly, now including not only other languages but also computer words as well. One of his wounds was a stab in the mouth which partially mangled his tongue, when he arrived at camp the next day he went to the colonels office and the Colonel asked him his name, because of his wound he pronounced it 'leftenant' and because of the relation to his name 'lefting' his pronunciation of 'leutenant' and the fact that he was left on the battlefield, that battalion changed the traditional word 'leutenant' to 'leftenant' I suppose after the story was spread it just kind of stuck. Thereafter his designate was known as the "leftenant". Thank you. I, personally, have always pronounced it as lieu - tenant - because it simply makes sense to say it this way. Americans changed it to fit their own odd version of a perfect language. Author has 1.9K answers and 1.2M answer views 3 y The RAF usually went along with LEFT, as befits RFC heritage. This can be confirmed at Wikitionary. Prince William holds the rank of Captain in the Blues and Royals, Lieutenant in the. LVA stands for Lieutenant Vice Admiral in terms of royal navy ranks. The first lieutenant (1st Lt or 1LT) in the Royal Navy and other Commonwealth navies, is a post or appointment, rather than a rank. Frank Harrison EDINGER Army Chaplains Department who died 26/02/1918 HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON United Kingdom ' YTQxMjE0ZGUzNjZjM2Q2NjVkY2FmZGM4NjJkNDdkNjYzZTQ1ZjJhNTQ5YmZh Well, the Australian navy was a copy cat of the RN in all things good (and bad) and it was always Lef - tenant there. Kauna unahang parabula na inilimbag sa bhutan. We're not all narrow-minded fools. Oh dear Bryan, don't you mean 'off'. Browse lien lienee lienor lieu lieutenant lieutenant governor life life assurance life coach dailyinfo[13]=' 37643 Sapper Thomas John ECCLESTON Tunnelling Coy. Then "lieutenant" would have the pronunciation of "lyeuchtenant". dailyinfo[18]=' 6422 Private Charlie GILBERT 4th Coy. In the 1700s an American English dictionary was written by a man named Noah Webster. . dailyinfo[14]=' 16511 Private Albert COLEMAN "D" Coy. 4th Bn. Michael T. Prosser, Campbell River BC. Arthur Giles Blake (12 September 1917 - 29 October 1940) was a British flying ace of the Royal Navy (RN) during the Second World War.He was credited with five aerial victories. Sub-lieutenant is the equivalent rank in the Royal Canadian Navy. dailyinfo[23]=' 9656 Private Isaac COOPER "A" Coy. In England this pronunciation (lju:'tenent) is almost unknown. I think a lot of younger people in the UK also do so. @ben But I will offer that an American film viewed with subtitles does bring more symmetry than would one in the Queen's. In British slang, of which there is a great deal, the word loo refers to a toilet. Because that's what it should be called. Here's a link to an article that explains the whole thing: http://mentalfloss.com/article/29761/when-did-americans-lose-their-british-accents Pronunciation of "Lieutenant" . Bryan from ST Pauls says, 'off of'. Or neither. The Yanks call it "lootenant" across the board. Commonwealth and Non-British applicants The Royal Navy have removed the 5 year UK residency requirement for select roles. MmM4NTEzMzQyNDI0YWU5MzA1ZGU3YzRmM2QyNjIyNzE5MjYwZjM0YWFkODE0 This courtesy developed when swords were still used on the battle field. Historically, the lieutenants in a ship were ranked in accordance with seniority, with the most senior being termed the first lieutenant and acting as the second-in-command. Featured roles 1st Bn. Just want to clarify, Americans speak proper English, not the British. Why does everyone say Colonel as "Kernel" or Coxswain as "Koksin"? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? More of an observation than fact. 2/ What is British English? document.write; . According to military customs, a lower ranking soldier walks on the left side of a senior officer. How to notate a grace note at the start of a bar with lilypond. On 22 June 1906, King Haakon and Queen Maud were solemnly crowned and anointed in the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim by the Bishop of Trondheim Vilhelm Andreas Wexelsen. Lieutenant. Accents in the American South, especially in coastal places like Mobile and Charleston, can still resemble English English quite a bit. But it seems less likely. var day=mydate.getDay() Also hear how to pronounce 'COLONEL\" correctly: https://youtu.be/YyiLRtxCWuE Listen and learn how to say Lieutenant correctly (military rank) with Julien, \"how do you pronounce\" free pronunciation audio/video tutorials.What is a Lieutenant? I can see how the v became [f] (see 'assimilation') so it sounds plausible to me. OTJmZWI4MDU3ZGQ3MTk1N2RiZTI1YjcxZDE2Njc3MzYzNmI4MjA4YmY1ZDdh I don't really know but I love the way the British pronounce certain words, such as schedule, it sounds so much more proper. First Lieutenant, HMS H 23 (submarine) (Portsmouth) [tender to HMS Alecto] [obtained aviator's licence (No. WW2 US M1 HELMET LINER H R HOOD RUBBER GOOD CONDITION. [2] Medical Branch ZjQ4ZDNiYjFjOTE0MWYyYzhkYTdhNGZjNTc3Y2IyYjIwM2M0MjAwZDNjNTQx While it will always remain a mystery, I think that this goes back to the OF pronunciation of "lieu" to sound like "lyeuch". lieutenant pronunciation royal navy. M2M0ZTc2Njg0NGNlM2I5YmIwZTRiZDBlNWE2MzJlZjFmYjFkYWI4NzUzMzNm Pride which they soon recovered during the Napoleonic conflict. For a great example of Elizabethan Pronunciation (which, by the by, was used over 200 years BEFORE the RP non-rhotic pronunciation became popular) check out this youtube link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s. During the early days of the naval rank, some lieutenants could be very junior indeed, while others could be on the cusp of promotion to captain; those lieutenants ranged across present-day army ranks from a second lieutenant through to a lieutenant colonel. It makes you sound brain damaged. Why do we still spell it the old way? The Oxford English Dictionary suggests that use of the Middle English forms with f may also have been encouraged by an association of the first element [lieu] with other English words, such as the noun leavea lieutenant being an officer who substitutes for another who is on leave or perhaps one who has the superior officers leave to take command when he is absent or otherwise unable to fulfill his functions. English is called English because it evolved from England - that's about as far as we can go with nationalist claims to the language. Well thanks for that gem, Einstein. ZTEwNjg4ODM4MDA4NzZjNmI2MDFiNGQ5Y2I4YWExZmNlNzNjMTUxMzY5ZDRk The most prevalent opinion seems to be down to the Roman Latin use of the letter "V" in place of a "U". Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates, Using indicator constraint with two variables, Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. Wikitionary claims that leftenant is an archaic spelling of lieutenant. Therefore, the term leftenant developed. dailyinfo[19]=' 9228 Corporal George F. PARRY 2nd Bn. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. [3] However, promotion may be quicker if a candidate has previous naval service and commissions from the ranks (upper yardsman/senior upper yardsman).[4]. . . What are the Physical devices used to construct memories? Lieutenant Commander RN: Step 13: 74,047: Step 12: 72,595: Step 11: 71,171 . The hypothesis of a mere misinterpretation of the graphic form (u read as v), at first sight plausible, does not accord with the facts. SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN France ' I read somewhere that the RN switched to 'left' because it became too difficult to persuade new recruits, used to hearing 'left' in war films about the British Army, to use 'let.'. And lieutenant means place keeper (lit. BTW Canadians technically say lef-tenant though many ordinary folks say it the US way because that's what we hear on TV. merchant seaman serving under Naval Articles, Naval Officers and subjecting them to naval discipline (number of the form) Tindal. dailyinfo[31]=' 420628 Sapper William Bayne YOUNG 63rd Field Coy. YjNhM2FhZTE4ZmRmZjMyYTE0OGQxODk1MjlhN2M2YTVmNWIwZTkxYzk5YjMy Lieutenant could have been spelled Lievtenant' and the pronunciation might just have stuck. Free shipping for many products! Lieutenant or WO III After 1940, the WO III rank was abolished and most of these WO IIIs were commissioned as officers. dailyinfo[7]=' Lieutenant Thomas Sydney Ough DEALY Australian Flying Corps who died 07/03/1918 STONYHURST COLLEGE BURIAL GROUND United Kingdom ' I would have thought that the RN would have used the Lieu (loo) style in the Great War if not earlier as I cannot see senior officers changing their grammar. Also hear how to pronounce 'COLONEL" correctly: https://youtu.be/YyiLRtxCWuE Listen and learn how to say Lieutenant correctly (military rank) with Julien, "h. In the world of words and the diversity of accents and local dialects, some words can be extremely hard to pronounce.Juliens instructional and educational videos make pronunciation easier as I detail the correct pronunciation as native French speaker but also fluent speaker of French, English, Spanish and Italian.-If you found this video helpful please like the video to support my work.-If you would like help with any future pronunciations please be sure to subscribe!-Thanks for Watching How To Pronounce with Julien and happy pronouncing. Royal Warwickshire Regiment who died 12/03/1918 ST. & Americans need to stop hating on the French -- without Benny Franklin's requesting help from King Louis in 1775, there would be no USA. We used Lutenant - or Luatenant, if that is written correct NOT Lootenant as in the American expression or Leftenat, which was considered to be `Army'!!! As Greene had gone into summer-quarters apparently, and the American partisans were just then quiet, his lordship left all his forces in charge of Stewart, went down to Charleston, and embarked for Europe to seek the restoration of his . ~~~ I thought 'leftenant' was only used by Americans imitating - or caricaturing - British English. Lieutenant RAF? I was curious why it is pronounced that way by the British. eyJtZXNzYWdlIjoiYWI0NjU5MTI5OWU1ZmVmYzM1NWQ2Y2M3ZmJjYmU0OTE3 Or, the Anglophones confused the lieu with the English word leave (live) as and got the pronunciation /l(j)evtnnt/ instead of /l(j)utnnt/ and then later on the /v/ got devoiced to /f/, Or, the pronunciation with /f/ is a holdover from one of the spellings with an orthographic f. Or, the /v/ was epenthetic (cf. E-mail : share.unit@nblbd.com, Useful Link Site | Disclosure on Risk Based Capital (Basel-III) | Code of Conduct (NBL) | Code of Conduct (Bangladesh Bank) | Bank Note Security Fea I think it's pronounced with an "f" sound (spelled v) in Russian as well. However, depending on the branch of the security forces, there may be associated words and abbreviations to consider. And what is it with these Americans, who speak of British English and a British version - hello!! dailyinfo[22]=' 25368 Quartermaster Serjeant Leonard Henry CADE Meritorious Service Medal 12th Coy. Royal Navy who died 15/03/1917 CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL United Kingdom ' Middlesex Regiment who died 25/02/1921 LADYWELL CEMETERY United Kingdom ' Or, as orthographic u and v were often used interchangeably, Anglophones for some reason hypercorrected their pronunciation to match the orthography, so: /l(j)u:tennt/ (or /l(j)ewtnnt/) Cirrus II at the . Have a definition for Lieutenant (Canada) ? OTIwODg2MTA3MzFiMmMxNGMwOTczOThlZjQxNjdhNjY4NDFjOThlNDlkNDNk To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. It's not just French dialects: consider modern French "neuf" ("nine") < "novem", "neuf" (new) < "novum", "boeuf" ("bull") < "bovem", "naf" ("naive") < "nativum". I don't understand all the nasty comments. MDUwMTdkNzA4YTAxNTJkZWY1ZWU0M2U2M2U0YjViZGNjN2ZlZjEyYTQ0YjQ4